Reader Comments on Aardvark Daily 11 December 2002

Note: the comments below are the unabridged submissions of readers and do
not necessarily reflect the opinions of the publisher.
 

From: David Annett
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Quality in electronic equipment

I feel the need to correct you on one point about "What ever
happend to quality".  Yes I agree that there has been a
decline in the quality of some modern consumer electronic
goods.  However I don't think it is right to say "perhaps
the manufacturers have built crappier products with a view
to forcing people to take these warranties...".  I don't
think anyone sets out to make a crap product on purpose,
they just make them too cheap.

I work for Navman as a design engineer and we pull a
significant effort into designing out products to last and
take abuse.  We do this because gives us good reputation in
the market place and reduces repair costs.  We can afford to
do this because the market we work in has reasonable margins
and therefore we can add a couple of dollars cost to our
products to make them better.

Unfortunately for Sony they work in the consumer market
where every dollar counts and they do cut some corners do
met target prices.  They all do it.  Of course the real
problem here is that they are cutting the same corners on
their higher end products and keeping the extra income
instead of making that product better.  Unfortunately this
is how consumer electronic marking works and is why good
ideas die.  Take VHS-S for example.  It came out nearly 10
years ago and addded about $20 to the BOM cost but sold to
the end customers for $200 more.  It died due to marketing
gread in trying to claw back income not being earned at the
entry level products.  What is the difference between a $200
DVD player and a $500 DVD ? Most of it is in the cosmetics
and construction of the case and the display.




From: anonymous
For : Anonymous Tipoffs
Subj: Consumer goods quality - from the belly of the beast

As a design engineer who has worked for manufacturers of
consumer goods the primary design aims are often:
a) make it as cheap as possible
b) make it as cheap as possible
c) make it as cheap as possible

Case in point - capacitors don't like heat and have short
life times.  It costs money to make a cap which lasts.

The current cheap surface mount capacitors tend to fail
physically, spilling corrosive fluid onto the PCB.   If I
could save just one cent US on a capacitor in a half million
piece run I'd done a good weeks work.

Testing? If I could drag 20c out of the cost of production
testing I'd be a hero.  Can you see where this leads?

As long as the product, on average, didn't fail before the
contracted MTBF all was well.  How the MTBF related to the
warantee period was not our business - but it was often
much, much less.

You also need to realise that the ex-factory cost of a
product will be less than 1/4 of the retail cost and the
total electronics parts cost will often be less than 1/10th.

  That $500 TV has about $50 worth of electronics in it.

Sony is renowned in DIY Audio circles* for 'cost accounting
engineering'.   Many of their products have partially
populated PCBs - apparently, once the design team has
finished designing a product, the production team start
removing and downgrading components - ensuring that it still
meets the published specs, but only to the letter.

Hot-rodding Sony audio gear often only requires replacing
and re-specing the bits that have been left out.

(*Do a google for joe-list or "Sound Practices")




From: Neil Bates
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Shoddy goods....

At least on the bright side we have some good consumer
protection for such equipment. Goods must last
a 'reasonable' time - pretty loose, but a mid/high end
TV/VCR etc of 3 year age would certainly not meet that
criteria (after all, a PC has a reasonable age of 6
years... according to a rescent judgement).

Luckily for retailers, most consumers think that once the
warranty has expires, that's it... but check with the
Consumers Institute or similar body and get some advise -
it could save some $$$$,




From: Rob
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: No fury like Sky scorned

Excellent site- in a world of increasing "spin" and PR your
observations are valuable.

I recently had both telecom's jetstream and Sky Digital
installed and soon began to realise that the web is far
more interesting- especially considering that your local
video store will now rent 7 video's or DVS's for $10- so
even if you do this each week its $20 less than sky/month-
and you control the viewing times.

I then cancelled the sky subscription and found out that
they will charge you $30 almost as an exit fee to "collect
the decoder". There was an option to go and drop it off
yourself which I did- but the agent had no "official
receipt forms left" and so wrote me a personal receipt.

Later get mail from Sky claiming that I must pay them $749
for their gear which I have returned. I was also told from
their customer services rep that its my responsibility to
produce proof to relieve myself of this aggressive, and
false billing.

Not happy- I don't like being treated like a thief, and I
don't like being assumed guilty until I can prove innocence
due to the problems in their inventory system- especially
the change in attitude when they are so helpful when
setting you up. I have the receipt (luckily I held on to
it), but am almost tempted to let them go through the
expense of taking me to court before producing it- I was
accused of stealing before being *asked* if I still had
their gear- at least video stores will call and ask
politely if you are overdue- and their inventory systems
are usually accurate.

From: Daniel
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: So long Sony

I was once too an avid Sony user. Any consumer electronics
I bought had to be Sony. Anything else was just crap.

But in the last 10 years everything I've bought that has a
Sony label on it has failed, broken, died, worn out etc.
etc.

Even after having items taken for repairs they seem to
come back worse than when I took them for servicing.

I'm much more inclined these days to invest in a lesser
known brand. They at least seem to have better quality
while trying to make a name for themselves.

5 years ago while looking at buying a CD player for my car
I ended up buying a Sound Barrier unit from Dick Smith,
versus a Sony at double the price.

Since then the unit has worked perfectly, whereas a friend
has gone through two Sony units in the same time.




From: Rob
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Sony - poor quality

I was almost going to buy a Sony LCD screen, but after
reading peoples feedback about Sony products, i am
certainly thinking twice about it. Sony to me was a quality
brand, and this was the reason why I was prepared to pay
more for something that I thought would last.  I have also
contacted Sony about the quality of these LCD monitors, and
they tell me that they allow for some defects in the screen
due to deficiencies in their manufacturing process. I have
also heard that Sony use Philips LCD screens in their
monitors. Sony however were unable to confirm this.

I have a Sony Mini System and Diskman, both about 8 years
old, and still working fine. Also have a Sony TV about 14
years old, which is on its last legs but still works.

I would be very interested in finding out what the quailty
reliable brands are at the moment.

From: Wayne
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Sony Television

This is a timely subject as my parents Sony TV developed a
nasty crackling sound on Friday and the Sound has now died
completely.
This TV is Wega 29" just over 2 years old and wasn't cheap.
At the time I can recall convincing my parents to spend a
bit more to get a quality TV and I selected the Sony on my
experience of "quality" associated with their brand name
features, and remote.
When you do a search of google newgroups you can see that
their have been a lot of faults with their TV's which is
certainly dissapointing.
I can't find the warrenty but it's probably just 2 years
and any repair bill is bound to be expensive.
I will not be buying or recommending a Sony product any
time soon.



From: Derek
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: present day quality

I agree all the way with your comments on so called quality
items. Have you noticed too that promises of an updated,
new, improved or more friendly service is often to cover
the fact that things will in fact deteriorate.
I am thinking here of a certain ISP who do not answer my
mail when I ask whether the situation is going to improve
or are we stuck with the sudden deterioration.




From: Mark
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Warranties etc

Note for Wayne, as per an earlier readers comment check out
your rights under the consumer guarantees act and / or get
in touch with the consumers institute (join if you have to
as it's quite cheap and worthwhile).  Regardless of the
warranty you still have rights.  A wee while ago the
motherboard on my 14 month old pc died (with a 12 month
warranty).  I sent it back to the shop.  Initially they
said I would need to pay, but I said "do you think it's
reasonable for a motherboard to fail after just 14 months?
I don't think so".  The techie talked to his boss and they
sorted it all out for free.  And that's without even having
to quote the Act.  If you forked out a large amount of cash
for something then you have a reasonable expectation that
it's not going to break after 2 years.  Even if you had to
get it repaired at your cost you can still claim these
costs along with any reasonable forseeable consequential
costs resulting.  Good Luck.




From: Richard
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: TV's and such

The best (colour) TV I have seen was a Philips unit my
Grandparents bought in the seventies, it died a few years
ago at the grand old age of 17!  It had worked flawlessly
all that time and had survived many house moves and so on.

That said, I have also seen older B&W valve(tube)-based tv's
*still running*!!  Mind you, the components back then
weren't so much soldered in, more like welded in place ;-)

I owned a nice Sony system (purchased for the "quality"
name) until about two years ago when the CD-player developed
a nasty hiss on playback.  According to a service tech I
know, he said it was probably the DAC chip, ("They fail a
lot.") The chip costs sfa, but to repair the unit would cost
nearly the price of a new system!

My next audio purchase will probably be an audiophile
quality system. They cost much, much more but they still
last like the "good ol' days".




From: Alan Liefting
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: How to build obsolescence into an appliance!

Here are a few trade secrets on how manufacturers produce
shoddy appliances.  They all do it so they all lose custom
fron disillusioned consumers to each other!

1. Place metal shields around the power supplies without
holes for air circulation.  This will ensure power supply
capacitors will dry out and make the power supply fail
prematurely.
2. Do not bother with putting thermal conducting paste
between heat sink and transistor.
3. Do not bother to solder the heavy components or joints
subject to thermal cycling.
4. Make your spare parts very expensive or do not bother
with having spare parts available.
5. The following components can be left out during
manufacture: protection zener diodes, VDR's, spark gaps,
decoupling capacitors, ferrite beads etc.
6. Buy the cheapest components from manufacturers who cannot
guarantee the longevity of their product.  It is easy to
have a CRT fail within three years by using impure
materials.  This will make the cathodes oxide and reduce the
emissions giving a dull, hard to read picture.
7. Fit the so-called head cleaning device to VCR's.  This
will ensure numerous service calls increasing the customer
frustration which will lead them to buy a new product.
8. Make sure that the videotape is laced around the your
head during fast forward and re-wind mode on a VCR.  This
will maximise video head wear and tear.
9. Dispense with EMI/RFI components in the power supplies.
As well as producing unacceptable interference this will
also mean that the power supply is more prone to damage from
voltage spikes.
10. Use the softer plastics rather than the more wear
resistant bakelite for kettles and toasters.  This will
guarantee the consumer will purchase a new product to
replace the shabby appliance.
11. Do not use spot welding on your toaster elements.  Spot
welding makes a reliable connection.  Crimped connections
will fail within a short period.  This is good (for the
manufacturer) since spare parts are not available.  The
consumer will have to buy a new product.
12. Use the cheaper carbon film resistors instead of the
more reliable metal film resistor with better voltage
ratings.
13. It is best to use a design style which will rapidly look
dated.  This is another ploy in order to have the consumer
purchase the latest style regardless of whether the item is
working or not.




From: Fran
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Price of parts.

I've just been quoted $800 + gst for a motherboard for a 300MHz HP
computer. This is the wholesale price from VisualTech. To be fair the tech
at Visual choked a bit when he read the price out and had to check it a
few times.




From: Grant
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Not just Sony

Its not just Sony with quality problems - a recent
Panasonic I brought also had what I think are
design/quality problems.

On the positive side, I have brought a couple of Samsung
products in the last couple of years and have been
pleasantly suprised. The 29" flat-screen Plano TV was a
cheaper than Sony/Phillips etc and everybody who has seen
the set agrees that it looks & sounds better.

Perhaps Koreans have _more_ than caught up with Japanese
manufacturing?

One thing that I think the home ent. giants have to do is
allow more feedback.  I would love to give my professional
opinion/suggestions for improvement on the Panasonic user
interface to Panasonic engineers but they don't seem to
encourage that.

Oh well, the way it works is that I won't be rushing out to
buy anymore Sony/Panasonic products without taking agood
look at Samsung stuff first.




From: Edmund Good
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Supply of parts

People mention the unavalibility of parts as a reason why a
product can't be fixed. On more than one occasion I have
had people complain that they can't get parts for some item
or another, only to find the service company they have been
dealing with hasn't even bothered trying to find the
service agent. Some service agents won't supply parts (they
want you to send the item to them for repair :-(  ),
whereas some are willing to help. One item I was looking at
restocking from a local supplier was ten times more
expensive than the manufacturer (a $3 part became $30 from
the local supplier). NZ is a nation of middle men each
taking their cut :-(




From: Jono
For : The Editor (for publication)
Subj: Consumer goods quality

I've got a Telefunken reel-to-reel tape deck that's older
than I am, works perfectly..

Seems like things are getting less reliable these days
unfortunately.  Everyone is trying to make things cheaper
and smaller at the same time and it doesn't always work -
it's cool to have a mobile phone that weighs less that
100gm complete with charger but I'd sooner have one that
lasts more than a year and won't go pyro on me if I leave
it plugged in over the weekend.

Most expensive doesn't always equate best performance or
best construction either, Consumer noted in one of their
small appliance comparisons that the likes of Samsung came
out well above many other brands for reliability and at a
far cheaper price.

Products that say "made in Japan/Germany/NZ/Oz" often seem
to be more sturdy.

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